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Goetz 1675@ <p>Belatedly, since I was checking to see what the current received wisdom is: character entities in P4 are also handy for glyphs for which no Unicode exists (yet?). Though I like Junicode, I'm leery of pasting in glyphs from its Private Use section. Very much in agreement with @kevin.s.hawkins here, also. </p> <p>I'm glad to see @<a href=''>jamesc</a>'s reminder about oXygen's code templates, at any rate, and will define a few templates for the glyphs in my manuscripts which aren't satisfied by the many Unicode hex points I've memorized.... </p> Kevin Hawkins on "TEI Basic Tags" Sun, 03 Apr 2011 14:31:56 +0000 Kevin Hawkins 1106@ <p>In response to Sebastian, when I said that some people do not put non-ASCII characters into their XML, this was meant simply as an observation of the current state of affairs and is not a recommendation. That is, I'm trying to explain why some people might say not to do this. Naturally French speakers creating XML will use their keyboard layout to directly enter characters used in French and will have no trouble reading and proofreading these.</p> <p>As for use of tools, not everyone has full control over the environment in which everyone in their project operates. </p> jamesc on "TEI Basic Tags" Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:49:59 +0000 jamesc 1094@ <p>I'd generally second what Sebastian says here. But, I'd also add a software-specific hint:</p> <p>If you happen to be using oXygen then you can do what are called 'code templates'. This could consist of highly complex markup, or even just a single character.</p> <p>So for example, although I can go to their character map and find a capital thorn character and click on it I find it easier to create a code template once with a capital thorn and name it THORN and thorn for the lowercase. That means I can start writing 'thor' and hit control-space to see if there are any templates that this matches and select the one that comes up. typing tho-ctrl-space-enter is certainly more keystrokes, but much easier than needing to remember unicode code points, and it puts an actual thorn character in there.</p> <p>One could do the same with mdash or any manner of things. I realise that is software-specific to a single editor, but any _good_ editor should allow you to do similar forms of abbreviation expansion or something. (So you can probably do something similar in whatever editor you are using.)</p> <p>-James </p> on "TEI Basic Tags" Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:54:12 +0000 1093@ <p>try the third <code>&lt;hi&gt;t&#234;te-&#224;-t&#234;te&lt;/hi&gt;</code> </p> on "TEI Basic Tags" Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:52:47 +0000 1092@ <p>ach, I should have guessed that would happen. an editor which claimed to HTML but is a pale shadow. My code example should have been</p> <p>&lt;hi&gt;t&#234;te-&#224;-t&#234;te&lt;/hi&gt; </p> on "TEI Basic Tags" Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:50:44 +0000 1091@ <p>Would you say the same for someone encoding texts in more or less any European language (let alone the scripts the majority of people in the world read and write)? I don't think French readers would like it if you suggested they write <code>&lt;![CDATA[&lt;hi&gt;t&#234;te-&#224;-t&#234;te&lt;/hi&gt;]]&gt;</code> in their files and proof-read like that. The case of endash vs emdash vs hyphen vs minus sign may be a special case, I admit.</p> <p>That there are tools which cannot do UTF-8 Unicode properly is true, but for how long do we have to tolerate the tyranny of old software? that a tool would be Unicode aware, yet not do UTF-8, stretches credibility, and if a tool be not Unicode aware, should we not cast it into the outer darkness? </p> Kevin Hawkins on "TEI Basic Tags" Wed, 30 Mar 2011 03:50:50 +0000 Kevin Hawkins 1090@ <p>Some people avoid putting non-ASCII characters into their XML for any of the following reasons:</p> <p>* The project's encoders or quality-control team have trouble distinguishing between characters with similar glyphs (like the ASCII hyphen and the em dash). While this can be mitigated by choosing a different font, you don't always have control over the font used if users are working in various environments. See the next point.</p> <p>* There are tools in use (text editors, scripts, etc.) that do not read and write Unicode, at least without proper configuration that users might not always remember to undertake. So if all text is in ASCII (using entity references when not), you ensure fidelity of interchange.</p> <p>Mneumonic entities (like &mdash;) are easy to proofread but require extra configuration for validation (as mentioned previously in this thread). Decimal and hexadecimal entity references are always allowed and are functionally interchangeable. If consulting Unicode charts, hexadecimal entity references are more convenient since they match the Unciode code points. </p> on "TEI Basic Tags" Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:34:43 +0000 1089@ <p>The best way to do characters like mdashes is surely to just write them in your file in UTF-8. Forget numerical entities, whatever, just put the character in... your editing application is sure to have way of doing it via a character map or menu or the like. Why treat them differently from any other character your normally type? </p> Dorothea Salo on "TEI Basic Tags" Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:22:17 +0000 Dorothea Salo 1088@ <p>I favor Unicode numerical entities, because it's less hassle for me than either using entity definitions or using finicky character palettes, but I am a HUGE NERD and have quite a few of the commonest Unicode punctuation codepoints memorized. If you prefer the HTML-ish formulations, Wayne's suggestion above should work just fine. </p> Ryan Cordell on "TEI Basic Tags" Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:30:18 +0000 Ryan Cordell 1086@ <p>I should add that for now we're following Laura's suggestion and using ampersand pound 8212 semicolon </p> Ryan Cordell on "TEI Basic Tags" Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:05:37 +0000 Ryan Cordell 1085@ <p>Hey all,</p> <p>Thanks for helping Ian with this issue--he's been helping me encode texts for my Celestial Railroad project. I'm still wondering about the best practice for characters like mdashes. Following these various links, we've found every recommendation from using the html and identifying the entity in the header to using the actual numerical designator. </p> <p>I do think we'll use &lt;hi rend&gt; for small caps. Thoughts about mdashes &amp;c.?</p> <p>--Ryan </p> jamesc on "TEI Basic Tags" Wed, 17 Nov 2010 11:34:18 +0000 jamesc 701@ <p><em>Replying to @<a href=''>cforster</a>'s <a href="">post</a>:</em></p> <p>Yup, that is exactly what I meant. :-) Chris is right, if you want to mark them up just because they are in small-caps then what you are (semantically) noting is that there is some highlighting of some sort there and that is it. So &lt;hi rend="sc"&gt; (or similar) is definitely your friend in that case. <a href="" rel="nofollow"></a> </p> <p>The 'comparing two texts in real time' seems interesting, and if you want help with that let us know!</p> <p>-James </p> cforster on "TEI Basic Tags" Wed, 17 Nov 2010 03:25:40 +0000 cforster 700@ <p><em>Replying to @<a href=''>IanRobertson</a>'s <a href="">post</a>:</em></p> <p>Hey Ian. @<a href=''>jamesc</a> is far more authoritative on these matters than I am, but I think I can elaborate on his point to clarify what you need. In short: the &lt;hi&gt; tag can take care of your smallcaps issue. For instance, if you have a poem with the first word in small caps it might look like this:</p> <pre> &lt;lg type="poem"&gt; &lt;l&gt;&lt;hi rend="smallcaps"&gt;Some&lt;/hi&gt; keep the Sabbath going to Church—&lt;/l&gt; &lt;l&gt;I keep it, staying at Home—&lt;/l&gt; [...] </pre> <p>The point in determining what function the small caps serve is just to mark it up in the most appropriate way. If the small caps were section titles, then it might make sense to mark up not the typography (or maybe not <em>only</em> the typography) but to add something semantic, like a &lt;div&gt; or a &lt;head&gt; or whatever. I think that was @<a href=''>jamesc</a>'s point in noting "the real question to ask is why you are encoding small caps." I think in this case, indeed, it sounds like you're marking up them as small caps just because they're small caps. In which case &lt;hi rend="smallcaps"&gt;...&lt;/hi&gt; seems like a good solution.</p> <p>Hope that clarifies. </p> IanRobertson on "TEI Basic Tags" Tue, 16 Nov 2010 19:30:40 +0000 IanRobertson 699@ <p><em>Replying to @<a href=''>jamesc</a>'s <a href="">post</a>:</em></p> <p>Thanks for all the help. I'm very new to TEI so I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense, but to answer your question. I'm doing a research project in college and the person in charge of me suggested I tag smallcaps because he planned on comparing two similar texts in real time. The texts are all slightly modified from the original, so smallcaps would matter. </p> Bethany Nowviskie on "TEI Basic Tags" Sat, 13 Nov 2010 13:51:07 +0000 Bethany Nowviskie 683@ <p><em>Replying to @<a href=''>jamesc</a>'s <a href="">post</a>:</em></p> <p>Hey, James -- good stuff! To keep this discussion on the TEI topic, I've instead <a href="">responded to you</a> over in our thread on suggestions for improving the DH Answers site! </p>